Legislature(2007 - 2008)BUTROVICH 205

04/23/2007 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES


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04:10:21 PM Start
04:10:21 PM SB111
04:50:41 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+= HB 186 SPORT FISHING GUIDE RECORDS TELECONFERENCED
Scheduled But Not Heard
-- Testimony <Time Limit May Be Set> --
+ HB 26 GEODUCK AQUATIC FARMING EXEMPTION TELECONFERENCED
<Bill Hearing Canceled>
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
+= SB 111 KODIAK NARROW CAPE PUBLIC USE AREA TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSSB 111(RES) Out of Committee
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                         April 23, 2007                                                                                         
                           4:10 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Charlie Huggins, Chair                                                                                                  
Senator Bert Stedman, Vice Chair                                                                                                
Senator Lyda Green                                                                                                              
Senator Gary Stevens                                                                                                            
Senator Lesil McGuire                                                                                                           
Senator Bill Wielechowski                                                                                                       
Senator Thomas Wagoner                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 111                                                                                                             
"An Act creating the Kodiak Narrow Cape Public Use Area."                                                                       
     MOVED CSSB 111(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 26(FSH)                                                                                                   
"An Act relating to aquatic farm permitting involving geoducks                                                                  
and to geoduck seed transfers between certified hatcheries and                                                                  
aquatic farms."                                                                                                                 
     SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 186(FSH)                                                                                                  
"An Act relating to sharing with certain federal agencies                                                                       
records required of sport fishing guides; and providing for an                                                                  
effective date."                                                                                                                
     SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB 111                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: KODIAK NARROW CAPE PUBLIC USE AREA                                                                                 
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) STEVENS                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
03/12/07       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
03/12/07       (S)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
04/20/07       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
04/20/07       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
04/20/07       (S)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
04/23/07       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
DOUG LETCH                                                                                                                      
Staff to Senator Gary Stevens                                                                                                   
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:  Presented  SB  111  on  behalf  of  Senator                                                             
Stevens, sponsor.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
DICK MYLIUS, Director                                                                                                           
Division of Mining, Land and Water                                                                                              
Department of Natural Resources                                                                                                 
Anchorage AK                                                                                                                    
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 111.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
RICK GIFFORD, Manager                                                                                                           
Kodiak Island Borough                                                                                                           
Kodiak AK                                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 111.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MIKE SULLIVAN, Land Manager                                                                                                     
Southcentral Region                                                                                                             
Division of Mining, Land and Water                                                                                              
Department of Natural Resources (DNR)                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 111.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CHARLIE  HUGGINS  called  the  Senate  Resources  Standing                                                             
Committee  meeting  to order  at  4:10:21  PM. Senators  Huggins,                                                             
Wielechowski, Wagoner,  McGuire, Green, and Stedman  were present                                                               
at the call to order.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                              
           SB 111-KODIAK NARROW CAPE PUBLIC USE AREA                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:10:21 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR HUGGINS announced the consideration  of SB 111 and that the                                                               
committee was working from committee substitute, version K.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  STEVENS,  sponsor  of  SB 111,  said  it  establishes  a                                                               
46,000-acre public use  area in Kodiak that is now  used by a lot                                                               
of  activities  including  grazing  leases and  a  rocket  launch                                                               
complex. Everyone involved is supportive  of developing this as a                                                               
public use area.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  HUGGINS  noted  that  Stacy  Studebaker  from  the  Kodiak                                                               
Audubon  Society   was  concerned  about  increased   impacts  of                                                               
unregulated four-wheel activity on wetlands and bird habitat.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:12:07 PM                                                                                                                    
DOUG LETCH,  staff to  Senator Gary  Stevens, said  ATV use  is a                                                               
sensitive subject  because Kodiak has  a large variety  of users.                                                               
The plan  would be developed  at the  local level and  included a                                                               
local ATV working group.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:13:34 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR HUGGINS  recalled that  there is hunting  in this  area and                                                               
asked how close  it was to neighbors and if  there was a shooting                                                               
range nearby.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS  replied that the  shooting range is not  in that                                                               
area and although  there are deer, he wasn't sure  it was open to                                                               
hunting.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. LETCH  said there  is some  limited hunting,  but not  by the                                                               
road. There may be buffalo hunting as well, but he was not sure.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS  asked the  Kodiak Island  Manager what  issues had                                                               
been already resolved.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:14:47 PM                                                                                                                    
RICK GIFFORD, Manager, Kodiak Island  Borough, responded that the                                                               
goal of the  bill is to try  to protect this area  for public use                                                               
and it  tried to  identify all  of the  traditional uses  in that                                                               
area realizing  that there  are some conflicts  with some  of the                                                               
uses that need to be worked on -  one of them is ATV use.  First,                                                               
the bill  needs to be passed  to protect the property  from being                                                               
sold and then managing  the uses can be worked on.  He said he is                                                               
not  familiar with  the  hunting activities,  but  it might  just                                                               
occur on Mr. Burton's ranch.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:16:56 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR HUGGINS  asked if there  had been any  historical conflicts                                                               
that need a resolution.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. GIFFORD replied that at this  point, the biggest issue is the                                                               
ATV use.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  HUGGINS  asked if  the  area  has multiple  entry  points,                                                               
parking areas and latrines.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. GIFFORD replied that there  are multiple entry points and one                                                               
latrine is available in the summer.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:18:20 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR HUGGINS asked about winter snow machine use.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. GIFFORD  answered that snow  machine use is  somewhat limited                                                               
because they need to go up higher in the mountains.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  HUGGINS asked  what responsibility  he would  have if  the                                                               
area is  managed by  DNR. He  assumed that  the DNR  had adjacent                                                               
area enforcement and signage responsibilities.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:19:09 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.   GIFFORD  replied   that  the   borough  manager   has  some                                                               
responsibility for solid  waste since it is a  state road system,                                                               
but he  works well with  State Parks  and DNR in  resolving these                                                               
issues.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  HUGGINS  asked  for  a description  of  entry  points  and                                                               
private and public property on the map.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. LETCH indicated that the state  highway system runs to a fork                                                               
and pointed to the main corridor  that runs past the Burton ranch                                                               
and ends  at Fossil  Beach, which  is at the  very end  of Narrow                                                               
Cape.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS  asked where someone  would park to offload  an ATV                                                               
from a Silverado pickup.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. LETCH  said he  has never  done that, but  the road  has some                                                               
pullouts and the very end of  it has just foot traffic. Secondary                                                               
roads lead into the Alaska Aerospace Rocket Launch Complex.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS asked if the rocket launch area has a fence.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:22:49 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. LETCH said the secure areas  of the rocket launch complex are                                                               
fenced off  and one has  to go through  security areas to  get to                                                               
different parts of it.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GREEN asked if  all of the land is owned  by one level of                                                               
government except for the private in holdings.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:23:47 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. GIFFORD  replied that  it is  all state  land except  for the                                                               
lease in holding for the buffalo ranch.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  GREEN  asked where  the  state's  authority started  and                                                               
where it overlapped  the rights and authority of the  borough  in                                                               
reference  to  language  on  page  2,  line  28,  that  says  the                                                               
commissioner may prohibit or restrict  uses that are incompatible                                                               
within the state-owned land.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GIFFORD said  this is  state, not  borough, land.  He didn't                                                               
believe there were  any other private in holdings  except for the                                                               
ranch.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  HUGGINS asked  if  any potential  Native  or First  Nation                                                               
claims might be pending.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. GIFFORD  replied none that he  knew of, but there  is private                                                               
and Native  property on the road  system leading up to  the area,                                                               
but not in it.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:26:05 PM                                                                                                                    
DICK  MYLIUS,  Director,  Division  of Mining,  Land  and  Water,                                                               
Department  of Natural  Resources,  said SB  111  sets aside  the                                                               
state  land  and retains  it  in  public ownership  for  multiple                                                               
public  uses. It  would prohibit  the  sale or  transfers of  the                                                               
parcel out of  state ownership. The area  is entirely state-owned                                                               
except for the  160-acre Burton ranch, which  he received through                                                               
the federal government.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Kodiak has  a current land use  plan that covers all  state lands                                                               
in the  Kodiak Island Borough  - 500,000 acres plus  the adjacent                                                               
tidelands. That plan  dealt with most of the  land use conflicts.                                                               
Specific conflicts  in this  general area  included ORV  use, but                                                               
most of the  real conflicts with ORV use are  further to the west                                                               
of the public  use area in Portage bay and  Psaltery Cove. That's                                                               
why  one  of the  changes  in  the proposed  CS  is  to make  the                                                               
requirement for the  land use plan an optional  thing. They think                                                               
that the  guidance of the  Kodiak area  plan is sufficient  and a                                                               
plan could be developed in the future if conflicts arise.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYLIUS said  he has never heard complaints  about shooting in                                                               
this area and the level of use is  a lot less intense than in the                                                               
Knik area.   He agreed that  a plan could always  be developed in                                                               
the future  if it were  needed. He also  pointed out that  the CS                                                               
changes the legal description,  because legislative drafters said                                                               
they wanted to make public  use area descriptions consistent with                                                               
others in format which included tidelands.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:29:57 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR HUGGINS  asked him to  describe the management  process for                                                               
when the AADC launches a rocket on a Saturday.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MIKE  SULLIVAN, Land  Manager, Southcentral  Region, Division  of                                                               
Land, Mining  and Water, Department  of Natural  Resources (DNR),                                                               
said he  has worked  on and  with the  rocket facility  since its                                                               
inception.  Under  current procedures,  he  would  get a  written                                                               
request from  the Aerospace  Corporation telling  him approximate                                                               
dates  of  the  upcoming  launch  and  requesting  permission  to                                                               
restrict access -  usually in a 12-hour timeframe.  He will grant                                                               
written permission  for those restrictions on  a launch-by-launch                                                               
basis. This  has been done  five or six  times and seems  to work                                                               
pretty well.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:31:41 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR HUGGINS asked  how four-wheelers are supposed  to know they                                                               
are not supposed to be in the public use area.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SULLIVAN  replied  that  part  of  the  procedures  includes                                                               
putting PSAs  (public service announcements)  on the  local radio                                                               
and launches  are announced  in the  local media  and newspapers.                                                               
Security guards are posted on the road for the launches.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS  asked Mr.  Sullivan if he  had any  concerns about                                                               
having  a public  use area  butt up  against a  restricted access                                                               
area like the launch facility.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SULLIVAN replied  that the  existing procedure  works pretty                                                               
well in  keeping people  out. It  is open  country that  is swept                                                               
with  helicopters with  the Coast  Guards working  offshore areas                                                               
when a launch takes place.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS  recalled having  as many  as three  launches per                                                               
year, which is  a pretty limited number and noted  that this bill                                                               
also includes notice  to mariners because the waters  in the area                                                               
are closed also.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:34:00 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR HUGGINS asked  where the parking is  located for offloading                                                               
a four-wheeler and what the capacity is.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. SULLIVAN replied that the majority  of the ATV use is further                                                               
to  the west  and some  might be  associated with  the Sacramento                                                               
River, which  is beyond Mr.  Burton's homestead. He has  not seen                                                               
an actual ATV trail that takes  off from the road into the public                                                               
use area  when he's been there.  That use is more  likely to take                                                               
place on the beaches.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS noted  the difficulties of not  having a designated                                                               
area for  people to park or  dump trash. He asked  how that would                                                               
be facilitated.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYLIUS replied  that at this point most of  the use is fairly                                                               
dispersed and not heavy. They  don't have issues about inadequate                                                               
parking and haven't had complaints  about garbage. This is a long                                                               
way  from Kodiak,  so  the people  going that  far  are going  to                                                               
recreate. If  it becomes a problem,  it could be dealt  with, but                                                               
right now he hasn't heard of a need.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  HUGGINS  said a  letter  from  Stacy Studebaker  from  the                                                               
Kodiak  Audubon  Society stated  a  concern  about the  increased                                                               
impacts  of  unregulated  four-wheel  use on  wetlands  and  bird                                                               
habitat.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYLIUS  responded that the  wetland areas that  are sensitive                                                               
to RV  use are  mostly to the  west of the  public use  areas and                                                               
haven't  had any  real conflicts.  He said  a lot  of ORV  use is                                                               
along the beaches.  One of the differences between  this area and                                                               
the Knik areas is that Knick has  a lot of gravel bars and places                                                               
where it  is easy for ORVs  to travel across and  Kodiak has less                                                               
inviting terrain. Their use tends  to be more focused on existing                                                               
trails and old roads.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:37:53 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR HUGGINS asked him to talk about hunting in the area.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYLIUS  said he  has heard  no issues  about hunting  in that                                                               
area.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS  pointed out there is  a lot of deer  hunting and                                                               
salmon fishing to the west of the proposed public use area.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:38:58 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. LETCH added that what is  there is very special to the people                                                               
of Kodiak. More likely than not,  the people are going down there                                                               
to walk the beach that has fossils embedded in the cliffs.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS  asked assuming  one can  rent a  four-wheeler, how                                                               
long would it  take to run from  Kodiak down to that  neck of the                                                               
woods.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:40:07 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR STEVENS  responded that  it takes an  hour to  drive from                                                               
Kodiak  to Pasagshak  Bay  in a  car and  he  didn't think  four-                                                               
wheelers could be rented in Kodiak.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER  said four-wheelers  aren't licensed to  run down                                                               
the state  road and added that  if some teenagers were  trying to                                                               
sneak up  on the  rocket launch,  they would be  in the  open the                                                               
whole way.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS said that in Mat-Su, ORVs run along side the road.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:40:45 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  GREEN noted  another constituent  letter mentioning  the                                                               
potential expansion of the rocket  area and how she wouldn't want                                                               
that  to  happen.  Senator  Green  said  the  state  has  already                                                               
invested heavily  in the area  and asked what  if it needs  to be                                                               
expanded, is that prohibited?                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  HUGGINS replied  that the  state would  have the  power of                                                               
eminent domain to expand the space port.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:41:42 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR STEVENS  said the rocket  launch has been a  good citizen                                                               
in the  community and he believes  it has the right  to expand if                                                               
it needs  to, but  he didn't  know of  any plans  to do  that. He                                                               
asked  the  Borough  Manager  if SB  111  restricted  the  Alaska                                                               
Aerospace Development Corporation (AADC) in any way.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. GIFFORD replied  that this bill doesn't  add any restrictions                                                               
and that the AADC supported it.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MYLIUS  added   that  the  AADC  has   an  Interagency  Land                                                               
Management Agreement  that gives  it certain  rights to  on state                                                               
land.  They include  the  rights to  put  specific facilities  in                                                               
specific places and to submit  a plan of operation. The agreement                                                               
covers a pretty big area and only  a small part of it is occupied                                                               
by  any facilities  now.  If  AADC wanted  to  expand within  the                                                               
existing  agreement  area, it  could  submit  a revised  plan  of                                                               
operation, which could be "tweaked"  if it impacted any trails or                                                               
public uses.  The proposal would  go through an  approval process                                                               
within the DNR. The legislation doesn't constrain them at all.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:44:04 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR GREEN  said she wants  to know  what happens if  the AADC                                                               
wants to expand past the land it already has access to.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYLIUS  said the  AADC would need  permission in  either case                                                               
and either  would be allowed under  the public use area,  but the                                                               
process would include public participation.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:44:47 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR HUGGINS asked  if a specific person is  responsible for the                                                               
management of the area.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MYLIUS  replied that  the  Southcentral  Regional Office  is                                                               
responsible for  that area  and probably  Mike Sullivan  would be                                                               
the person to talk to.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS  asked if  enforcement were  needed in  this public                                                               
use area, what the process would be.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYLIUS  replied that  it would  depend on  the nature  of the                                                               
issue. A long-term  trespass issue would be dealt  with through a                                                               
site inspection from the regional  office. For immediate problems                                                               
like public  safety, the troopers  in Kodiak would go  out there.                                                               
He was  not aware  of that  having happened.  Kodiak has  a state                                                               
park office and  staff has gone down there to  check on concerns,                                                               
but they don't have enforcement authority.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:46:40 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. LETCH  added that about  two-thirds of Kodiak  Island belongs                                                               
to the  Kodiak National  Wildlife Refuge;  the Borough  of Kodiak                                                               
has  about 56,500  acres of  land  and its  entitlement has  been                                                               
satisfied. This  would be another  way of guaranteeing  that what                                                               
is there  will remain there. If  the state decides to  dispose of                                                               
the land, the legislature will have to weigh in on it.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN  moved to  pass CS  for SB  111, version  K, from                                                               
committee  with   individual  recommendations   and  accompanying                                                               
fiscal notes.  Hearing no objections,  CSSB 111(RES),  passed out                                                               
of committee.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The  committee took  an at-ease  from 4:48:38  PM to  4:50. There                                                             
being no  further business  to come  before the  committee, Chair                                                               
Huggins adjourned the meeting at 4:50:41 PM.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                

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